Meet Joe Vidulich with Appian

[00:00:12] Welcome back to another episode of The Political Life. This is Maggie Mick with Multi-State, and today I am so excited to introduce you to a longtime friend and colleague, Joe Vidulich with Appian. Joe recently made a big professional move, and we're going to hear all about his decision making in making the hop over to Appian. But welcome, Joe. It is wonderful to see you.

[00:00:39] Thank you, Maggie. It's wonderful to be on The Political Life and just chatting with you as always. Well, we always ask the first question. It's always the same. Where did you start your political life? Oh, well, you know, I am an Italian-American from New York, so I grew up with big egos, big hairs, and loud voices. And so I was the son of a schoolteacher and accountant.

[00:01:04] Nobody in my family was in politics. Nobody had a Rolodex. Nobody knew what a lobbyist was or even who our member of Congress was. But I'll tell you what, in 1996, I remember to this day sitting at my kitchen table watching the Dole Clinton debates on a 15-inch, you know, big CRT television screen.

[00:01:26] And it landed and caught with me. And so I got the bug. And, you know, it would later be the case that I saw an ad for American University's Campaign Management Institute, and I knew I wanted to be in the arena from that point forth. So it started early for me. Still have to explain to my mother what it is I do or who I talk to and what I try to accomplish every day. But once I got bitten by the bug, I was gone and I was connected.

[00:01:57] So after you graduated from the Institute, did you actually go into campaign work? Yeah. So at American University, I was, you know, Mr. Bigwig on campus. I was student body president. I was turned on by their motto of ideas into action and action into service. And so I actually had three career goals as a kid, and I think they actually really fit.

[00:02:20] One, I grew up on 90s television like many of us did. So I wanted to be a butler of all things. So I had this bug for protocol in advance, which really ties into. I wanted to be a submariner, and I love the structure and the rigor and the kind of institutions. And then, just like everyone coming of age in the 1990s, I'm a generation of the West Wing kind of creation. And so I wanted to be a White House chief of staff.

[00:02:49] And so you kind of tie those three together. I got a chance to work for Peter King, a very moderate Republican from Long Island. He was my congressman. And he was one of the few Republicans that opposed the Clinton impeachment debate in the 90s.

[00:03:06] Then I got the opportunity to join Senator John McCain's campaign as a war room correspondent, waking up at 5 a.m. in the morning, 4 a.m., taking the drive to Crystal City so that we could look over the evening news before there was a Twitter, before things came out in advance and pulling clips. And then I got a chance to work for another one of my political idols, Governor Romney. And I did finance for him.

[00:03:32] And there were three very different disciplines that taught you that politics is a craft with rules. And I decided I never wanted to be the guy at the podium, but I wanted to be in the arena. I wanted to be the guy who knew why the podium was there and how to set it up. So after working in the arena for a while, are you more of a Toby or a Josh? That's a really good question. I haven't been asked that. I would like to think that I'm a Leo with hopefully a little longer life expectancy.

[00:04:03] You know, I am a policy wonk. I cut my teeth in technology policy. And my path to government is peculiar. Like, I did not really work fully on the hill. I decided after undergrad, I thought I had to go to law school. And three weeks in, I knew I wanted to get out. And it took me three years.

[00:04:25] And so I actually met my mentor, Bobby Kilberg, who is a Republican acolyte of the Nixon, Ford, Papa Bush, and George W. Bush administration. She took a chance on me. And I actually started in state politics. I worked for the Northern Virginia Technology Council as their government affairs manager and caught the bug and was in sessions in Richmond for 45 and 60 days, pounding the pavement.

[00:04:54] Because as you know, Maggie, and everyone who listens to this knows states is where the work gets done. But I would like to think that I'm a Leo at the end of the day. Maybe not vice president, as he tried to be. But I like to be the one calling the shots. I think it's interesting, though, that as I've observed your career, you did the state work in the Virginia. And then I believe, what was the next move? Did you go to Capital One after that? No. No.

[00:05:22] So I was at the Technology Council, which is one of the largest in the world. And then I came over to the Northern Virginia Chamber, and I was their VP there. And anyone who knows anything about Northern Virginia is we have a really big commercial base. It's used – actually, the internet flows right through Northern Virginia because of all the government agencies, three-letter agencies that kind of live and breathe here. So I had the opportunity after I was with the Chamber, I got approached by several companies,

[00:05:50] Meta, Facebook at the time, Microsoft, Hilton, and Capital One. And I chose to go to Capital One where I split my time doing state and local government affairs and loved it. Worked in Albany with the egg up there. I worked in Delaware. That's one of the smallest political capitals in Virginia and Louisiana. But then again, going back to being peculiar, I then made the pivot to doing federal for them.

[00:06:20] And that's where I spent the last six years over there out of my 10-year career at Capital One. Yeah. We met when you were doing the state and local work at Capital One, and I thought it was such a loss to kind of our state and local community. When you decided to go do federal – I was at CSG at the time, and I thought, he's really, really good at this. And so I felt like it was a loss. But, you know, it sounds like that is – you've enjoyed both worlds, but you keep getting pulled back federally.

[00:06:50] Yeah. You know, it's interesting. So, like, doing work at Capital One, it was also very odd. Like, you know, usually these big corporations, they have a House Republican, a Senate Republican lobbyist, a House Democratic lobbyist, a Senate Democratic lobbyist, and at Capital One, we broke the mold. We actually broke down better lines of businesses. So I was working on retail payments, on credit cards, on privacy, on all these issues where you had to talk to both sides of the aisle.

[00:07:20] And as you know this on the state and local side, that's what you have to do day in, day out, Republican governors, Democratic attorneys general. And so it was a hard pivot because, you know, I think sometimes federal lobbyists and federal folks that work on Capitol Hill, they're a little bit of an incestual relationship. Who did you work for? What did you do here? But so I had to earn my stripes, if you will. But it was certainly a pivot point for me.

[00:07:47] And I think it helped inform me why I decided to come to Appian. So tell me about that move, because it was a gigantic move. What went into the decision-making tree? What finally kind of made you walk through the door? Because, you know, those are the big moments in a career where you really take a leap and you do it. Yeah. A lot of thought. Talked about it a lot with my husband and my family.

[00:08:13] So, newsflash, you're never supposed to tell someone's age. But I turned 40 in February and I was like, I'm having a midlife crisis or maybe quarter life crisis or third of a while. Who knows? But, like, I wanted to do something different. I was afforded some great opportunities at Capitol Hill and great mentors. Jim Brown, Steve DeLuca, Emily Weems, who have been, like, stalwarts.

[00:08:38] It's very odd that you stay with a company for, like, 20 years and all of them were there for a while. And I had the ability to grow. But I've known of Appian for about 25 years when I was with the Technology Council. And I knew Matt Calkins, our CEO, and I knew what they were doing. And it dawned on me that this would be a unique opportunity.

[00:09:00] So, Appian was founded 25 years ago as a platform-based company where we basically sit on top of data both in the public and private sector and make it actionable. So, we were part of mission-critical work. But what Appian was lacking is they did not have a government affairs shop.

[00:09:17] So, I was going to have this opportunity, like, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to build something for a publicly traded company that sells to all 15-level cabinet-level agencies at this intersection of AI going on between the halls in Sacramento, both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue, Brussels, and EU countries. And so, for me, this was like, I can, you know, to use the Hamilton line, I'm in the room where it happens.

[00:09:47] And so, we believe in certain things from a policy perspective. And now I get to actually put that into action. And I've only been here about six months. But the energy, enthusiasm, and the pace, my goodness, the intensity where AI is going, it's just so immense. And I couldn't be more happier. And, you know, it's a great company to work for. And you are definitely a student of the government affairs craft.

[00:10:15] What do you think that you've observed or learned from other leaders, like Jim Brown, who's also one of my favorites, also a former CSGer before Capital One? But what have you taken throughout the course of your career for this moment when you actually get to build a government affairs operation? So, I've learned a lot from you. I've learned a lot from Jim. A couple of things. In this business, authenticity matters. You can lose your credibility as fast as you've earned it.

[00:10:45] And so, you need to be authentic. It's always about giving both sides of the argument. Telling that member, that staffer, what is good for your boss, why you should be there, and what you're going to hear from the other side. Number two, you have to think about this holistically, specifically in this day and age where policymakers, staffers, regulators, the media, investors, constituents are all hearing the same thing. You can't be talking out of both sides of your mouth when it comes to things.

[00:11:14] And number three, and I think this is the most important, you want to build relationships for the long haul. Relationships is what matters in this business because, in essence, we are selling an idea, a concept. We all want the same thing. I go back to it, and I still teach a class occasionally in American. Lobbying is a fundamental constitutional right in the First Amendment to our Constitution. Anyone and everyone has the right to redress their government for grievances.

[00:11:44] Well, hopefully it's not grievances all the time. But the way I look at government affairs is it's very cyclical. There will be good times, and there will be bad times. There will be times when Republicans are in control or Democrats are in control, and you should still be building up that relationship and rapport with anyone and everyone who you can meet with. And lastly, I'll say here is like I'm a big believer in the one-to-five scale. If someone's with you 100% of the time, they're your fours and fives.

[00:12:11] And, you know, you work on those relationships. You make sure they have the information so they can be your champion day in and day out. And there's folks you're never going to convince, and they're always going to be a detractor. And you should try to make inroads, but you need to focus on those folks in the middle which are gettable. And that is how you can persuade, you can encourage, and how you work the issues that come before you in this crazy profession we've chosen. Yeah, I love that. You said the one-to-five rule? Yep.

[00:12:41] Yeah, that's excellent. So AI, in terms of what you've seen it accelerate for your company, but just in terms of, you know, the evolution of the past six months, what are your observations? So everyone who says AI is a transformative technology is absolutely 100% right. It is something that will be transformative in individuals, businesses, governments.

[00:13:10] You know, obviously, after the doge cuts, you still have to deliver to the constituents that you serve or that have elected you, the people that you represent. And AI is accelerating what they can do with less. Where we've always had this challenge with technology is we think it's the be-all, end-all. The car would replace the horse and buggy. The credit card would replace the debit card or cash. The light bulb would replace a lamp.

[00:13:40] There's always going to be change, but it's going to happen to change over time. And so what we're seeing with AI adoption is a couple things. Number one, the real focus is on who owns the data. You know, a lot of governments and corporate entities, data is one of the most expensive commodities. It's more expensive than real estate. It's more cherished, snapper, because if you can understand your constituents, if you can understand your customers, you really can move mountains on where you have to sell or be there.

[00:14:09] Number two is sovereignty. Where you are seeing a lot of discussion between Europe and the United States is where is that data sitting and how it can be there. And the third, and this is where Appian really focuses in on, is AI, you know, at the end of the day, it's probabilistic, meaning it's guessing. And so you need to have humans in the loop. You need to have a governance framework for AI. How will you make sure things are right?

[00:14:35] So one of the things that we do often here at Appian is, like, we have various products and tools for the government. We have a $500 million agreement with the Army. We sell to every cabinet-level agencies, processing claims for banks, processing loan applications. One of the things that comes before us is if you're filling out a paper form for the government, you might write down, and this is not your email address, maggie.mick at gmail on your form, on your paper form.

[00:15:03] And if that goes through a process that uses AI, AI may say that's an improper email address because it doesn't have that .com at the end. What process on top of AI does is it allows a human to get a flag and say, with a 99.998 degree of certainty, we think Ms. Maggie Mick means at gmail.com. And so we allow a human to review it.

[00:15:29] And so that's where this public debate is going from a guardrails perspective so that we can actually speed along the process and make things more deliverable to the government at the end of the day. And in terms of AI in our profession, how do you think it accelerates or changes government affairs and public affairs? Okay. So I think this is a fascinating topic.

[00:15:52] I'm not a big believer in AI models predicting the probability or success of legislation or regulation being adopted. You know, you got to – I still listen to hearings. I still read hearing transcripts. I hear the inflection in a legislator's tone, how much they're committed to it, how much is a grandstanding.

[00:16:13] But, you know, the synthesizing of pieces of legislation to figure out in a huge bill like the National Defense Authorization Act or a huge budget bill that might be moving through a state house in a short period of time. Companies like Multistate and others have really given tools to lobbyists to kind of synthesize that data so that we can look at things and make decisions. Where do we need to put the time and attention to? You know, I'm a shop of one right now.

[00:16:43] And when I came from Capital One, we had 12 lobbyists, consultants up the galore. You know, you can't be in 50 states at once. God knows I've tried. We were talking earlier, like, I'm getting old. A red eye from Sacramento back to D.C. is not easy on my body at 40 years of age. I don't think it's easy on anybody's body. But, you know, when you can get flagged that, like, there's something moving and then you can make it actionable. Hey, let me call this trade association up.

[00:17:12] Ooh, this might be a topic we want to consider at CSG or NCSL. Oh, you know what? We weren't considering sending anyone to RAGA or DAGA. We might want to send something now because this is moving. You know, a lot of times your opposition could be trying to put something in a statehouse or a bill or slip something in. I always think about a baseball reference. If you're on defense, you've got to bat 1,000.

[00:17:40] You've got to hit and you've got to make sure you have no misses. Your opposition sometimes can only chip away one little piece and then it becomes model legislation. So I think AI is a really good surveillance tool. It helps us kind of create and tailor information. One of the things I had to do here first was explain to folks what Appian is. And so when I think about the consultants and the people I network with and the legislators I talk to,

[00:18:08] it has been really helpful in terms of making those documents that would have, you know, spent me hours making a deck look perfect. Yeah. So it's like having a team built around you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like having an in-house team that you can use at a moment's notice. I mean, Maggie, you've used it too, right? I mean, you've seen the benefit from it for the folks that you interact with.

[00:18:37] You also know what AI slop looks like from time to time. And, like, that is not good. You know, I will never send a letter to a member of Congress or a staffer written by AI. Will I make sure I'm using the proper protocol for how am I addressing them? Absolutely. But I don't want them to, you know, necessarily, you know, just like I wouldn't have AI do my college term paper. I'm too old. We didn't have that back then. But Cliff Notes version of it.

[00:19:06] I just think that, you know, AI is an accelerant at this point. And I see it benefiting the industry. But I think when you are in a human decision-making profession like policymaking, that judgment and detail and finesse and curation, like you said, is still such a critical piece to the profession. Yeah. I mean, you need to be on the ground.

[00:19:32] I mean, I do not think AI is going to replace the profession of lobbying. I just don't. And I think as we kind of think of what next in lobbying, we're also becoming like media consultants and public affairs folks. I mean, this is not just a work-pass-bill-go-to-bed kind of job anymore. It is like thinking about almost like you need to have a team at your disposal.

[00:19:58] And AI is certainly a tool that can help you figure it out, like when you have to do mapping of key individuals or influencers when you're doing a campaign. So it's very helpful to kind of figure out where those touch points are and where you need to land. I just – I'm a big believer in the personal connections that you make. And so, you know, we talk a lot how there's the policy side of the House when you walk the halls, but also the political side of the House.

[00:20:27] And I spend most of my time trying to build the relationships with those members, both Republicans and Democrats and independents. I'm an equal opportunity pleaser outside of Washington as much as possible in their districts or in their states. And I think that plays an important role. And AI is not going to replace that.

[00:20:48] Well, thinking about just beyond the lobbying profession and our own respective careers, you know, what do you think are some of the most critical leadership lessons that you have learned? Either through your time with ACYPL, you can share a little bit about how that's informed your worldview. But what are the leadership lessons that you hold and that you try to share with others?

[00:21:41] Yeah. I mean, you know, one of the things I try to impact on our delegations that visit and, you know, candidly, what I've taken for it because I had the opportunity to go to Australia and make some lifelong friends and connections is mentorship matters. Relationships matter. And so, you know, I have a bunch of mentors that I look up to in this profession and that I can lean on.

[00:22:10] And I think that is how you build consensus. I also think we need to break down a lot of these barriers. I think one of the kind of impunities of our current political environment is that discourse is lost or left online. And, you know, what's that old saying? I think I learned it from another American University alum, Judge Judy of all people. Write it, regret it, say it, forget it.

[00:22:36] And so, you know, if you can make a personal connection with folks and go beyond the superficial, go beyond the talking points, I think that's a leadership lesson that will treat you well in life. The other thing I'll say here, and, you know, I'm interested in your take on this too, Maggie, is like the best GR shops think not just on the here and now, but looking around the corner.

[00:22:59] My old CEO, Rich Fairbank, great name in banking, by the way, would often bring his employees together and would ask, if you put a bunch of BBs in a sink, where is it going? And it all goes right down the drain, right? You want to figure out where it's going to end up. And so where are the BBs going? I keep thinking about that because a GR shop, specifically if you're working longer term, which a company is, a nonprofit is, a trade association is, you need to be thinking three moves ahead.

[00:23:28] And I think that is a good leadership trait that you really should take with you as you kind of grow in this profession. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, the dynamics change almost every six months now, but you should be working on an actively monitored five-year plan in your GR shop. I 100% agree. And I think, you know, it's a rapidly changing world.

[00:23:56] And like on the federal level, things don't move as much anymore. You know, now you just have must-pass vehicles, a CR, an NDIA, maybe a debt ceiling bill. And there's these things will be attached to it. Again, going back to our conversation with AI, if you're going to read a 650-page bill in 48 hours, A, you're definitely running on Duncan, that's for sure. But, you know, you also want to use tools that can help you understand what you're looking at.

[00:24:24] And so, you know, pulling out those citations. Leadership isn't really about, in this profession, building your own personal brand and building up that you can be trusted. Now, Joe, since you just marked a major milestone in your life and career with your big move, and I can fully appreciate the 40 question mark. I'm more of a penultimate girl.

[00:24:49] I made my big career move at 39, wanting to be in a new seat by the time I reached 40. But when we look back at our careers and think about legacy and think about achievement and how you made, hopefully, a difference in your respected field and in your respected companies, kind of what does looking back look like at the end of your career?

[00:25:14] So, first of all, I doubt it was penultimate for you because you're 22 or 25. I'm not going to reveal a woman's age on a podcast. Yes. But, you know, I do believe you have an obligation to do good. And I am a big believer. I am a religious guy. And I believe that, like, you cannot take anything with you when you leave this earth. You can do one of two things. Well, maybe just two things, actually. One, you can take your memory.

[00:25:43] So fill up your life with being around those people that you want to be around with, doing something that makes you happy, doing something that is meaningful to its purpose. And that's driven. And then number two is you want to leave something behind, making this world a better place. And that definitely was the case when I was at Capital One. You know, I am a strong believer. You know, I know banks sometimes get a bad rap. But I believe access to credit, affordable credit, is so important for that family that's just starting out,

[00:26:13] that first-generation American who wants to go to school and needs to take out a loan, that person who loses their job and needs credit to float by, or that person that wants to buy a home or a car for the first time. And when I made the decision to come to Appian, I was driven by the mission-critical nature of the work that they do, either supporting our men and women in uniform across the globe, and supporting the warfighter and the defense of democracy,

[00:26:39] or defending the government against fraud, waste, and abuse by bad actors, or defending international threats. And so for me, it is a mission-driven moment in my life. And so I want to leave this place, this country, and, you know, the people that come before me in a better way. It sounds altruistic and maybe a little sappy, but yeah, as I told you, I'm a West Wing kind of guy.

[00:27:06] So it wouldn't be a West Wing episode if it didn't end that way. We are aligned. I'm a sap girl myself. Well, our final two questions are always the same. Where were you last, and what was the best meal that you had on your most recent personal or professional trip? And where are you headed to next? So that if someone wants to link up on LinkedIn and give you a food recommendation or a restaurant tip, they can make a new friend that way.

[00:27:34] Well, I love it. I am a foodie, and I love, because I'm Italian, I love to cook. So, you know, I'm going through, I have a 14, I'll give you the personal trip at the end. I just got back on that red eye from Sacramento and in L.A. on a pack trip, meeting with a couple of members. And I actually, it comes full circle for us, Maggie. Every year, I invite some of my folks I went to Australia with on ACYPL to join me on this pack trip, and we go to Disneyland.

[00:28:03] And I will say that in Disneyland at the Grand Californian, there is a restaurant, I think it's called Napa, and it had one of the best, best pieces of duck that I ever had. It's also one of the best meals I can make, because I love to cook duck. It's very easy, just so you know how to do it. But the duck was really good there. And then where I'm going on the personal side, I got married last year,

[00:28:30] you know, 25, 25, 25, so I can't forget it. And a bunch of my family came out to London for that. And now we want to do it again. So 14 of us, including five kids under the age of 13, will be going to Rome and Florence, where my sister, Carly, will be celebrating her marriage. So I am looking forward. If you have foodie recommendations in Rome and Florence,

[00:29:00] I know it's a horrible foodie place, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or Appian or through Maggie. But yeah, I think I'll be okay. The fish in the barrel in those two cities. Lucky you. And congratulations. Mazel tov to your sister. That is fantastic. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you, Joe, for joining me today. Always fun to catch up. I hope to see you in person soon. And thank you for your leadership in our profession

[00:29:29] and best wishes as you embark in your second half of the maiden year at Appian. Thank you, Maggie. It's so good talking to you. Thank you for putting this together and being a resource for so many of our colleagues across not only the United States, but across the globe. It was a pleasure joining you. Thanks.