Bobby Patrick, VI is the Vice President of State Affairs, Regional Government, and Alliance Development at AdvaMed, the MedTech Association. He oversees AdvaMed's state affairs work and partnerships with external stakeholders, including patient advocacy organizations and physician groups. Previously, Patrick served as the vice president of strategic growth and policy at the Medical Alley Association where he led the state and federal advocacy efforts. He also oversaw the membership work at the Association, where they experienced growth in membership revenue, engagement, and retention under his leadership. Prior to that, Patrick served as a staff member in the Minnesota House of Representatives. He holds a Juris Doctorate from William Mitchell College of Law and an undergraduate degree from Syracuse University.
[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of The Political Life. Today we come to you again from Washington, DC and today we have a guest that our co-host, Maggie Mick has known for quite a while, Bobby Patrick,
[00:00:28] the VI, I believe, from AdvaMed and Bobby, welcome to the podcast and Maggie want to introduce our guest. Thank you, Jim. Welcome, Bobby. And I thought it'd be fun to share a little personal anecdote.
[00:00:45] We had talked a few weeks ago when we had Sarah Mercer on the podcast about the political life meet cute in that Jim and Sarah had met in kind of a wash at a wash rag event, but it was
[00:00:56] tangentially related to the podcast because Jim was moderating a panel with Sarah and Bobby and I actually met via this podcast as well. So Bobby and I were just on the road a few weeks ago
[00:01:09] together. He is a client. I'll disclose that. But we were joking that out of all the clients that I have the privilege of working with at multi-state that Bobby was one that I actually did
[00:01:21] not know at my time at CSG. I did the podcast shortly after joining multi-state with Jim and Bobby heard that recording was like, she sounds credible, competent. Let's talk to her. So Bobby
[00:01:36] and I and his wonderful team at AdvaMed had been working together since then, but he is probably one of two clients that I have only been working with and know for the past couple years.
[00:01:47] But Bobby and his team at AdvaMed are just an incredible team that span the country and work on various issues. And I look forward to hearing more about Bobby's professional history and
[00:02:01] what he's up to now. So Jim, you want to kick us off with the first round of questions? Sure. Well, Bobby, welcome to the podcast. And I guess what I would want to start is
[00:02:13] so you worked for the speaker in Minnesota and what was that your first political job? Not obviously not working for the speaker but working in the Minnesota State House. Yeah, Jim and Maggie, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. So yeah,
[00:02:31] working for Speaker Kurt Daut starting in 2013, really before he was where your speaker worked in leadership there and had worked my way up through the Minnesota House. I started as a,
[00:02:44] we call them session onlys, right? We get hired for just the three or four months that were in legislative session. And I happened to be paired with a legislative assistant who got promoted herself. And so slid into that role and worked up from there. So was a full-time
[00:02:59] legislative assistant and then took over the Taxes Committee when we took the majority in 2010 and was a lead staffer there. And as my soon-to-be boss was elected the leader of the caucus after we sort of flipped back into minority, worked for him and ascended to be legislative director
[00:03:21] for three years while we were in the majority. And that was a great job. I loved that job. And what were the responsibilities as legislative director for the speaker or a speaker?
[00:03:33] Yeah, so in Minnesota it can vary depending on from a speaker to speaker sort of how they assign those things out. And I was charged with more or less the entire legislative agenda. So I oversaw the committees, the process of putting together caucus priorities, making sure things
[00:03:52] moved through on time, making sure everything met deadlines, working with the Senate to set deadlines and coordinate the back and forth of legislation to ensure that there were no hiccups. And then really making sure that the bill's passed. So helping vote count and working with lobbyists to
[00:04:12] never fall short of the 68 votes that we needed to get things through the Minnesota House. Well, that must have been from being a sessional to that job quite a difference. Yeah, it was when I was a session only the legislative director job was always the one
[00:04:30] that I aspired to. And so working my way up through and actually being able to land that and then be able to hold it for a few years was really what I always wanted.
[00:04:42] And it was really a lot of fun. You find yourself in some places, you sort of look around, you're like, wow, I can't believe I'm actually here doing this. And it's you're just you're grateful that you're given that opportunity.
[00:04:56] And were you the primary point of contact for advocates and lobbyists and people on the outside on certain bills after the committee process, obviously, but in the speaker's office were you kind of the one interacting with the outside interest groups?
[00:05:13] Largely, yeah, I was. As things came through if they had issues or they needed to draw our attention to something or felt that they weren't getting what they were promised through the process, I was sort of the problem solver really of last resort.
[00:05:29] And if you were coming to me, it was because you couldn't get what you needed from somebody else or something went off track. And so, lobbyists typically didn't want to find myself find themselves in my office not because I was mean or aggressive or anything like that.
[00:05:46] But it usually meant that there was a problem that need to be taken care of. I do think that that's an interesting point that when you are going to senior staff at the end of the line, what's an example of maybe like a good behavior of a lobbyist
[00:06:04] going to senior staff and where did things kind of go off the rails and maybe in an interaction with a lobbyist or an interest group representative? Yeah, that's a great question.
[00:06:16] The lobbyists that I felt did the best were ones who would catch me in the hallway or to stop by my office for a couple of minutes and flag something really early in the process.
[00:06:25] Hey, this is a really important issue for my client. Here's 30 seconds on it. Just wanted to be aware we're working through the process as you see it come through. Lobbyists who didn't do their work and were running up against deadlines and were panicking
[00:06:43] would come to me like, we really need this bill scheduled right now. And my question to them always was what did the chair say? What did the committee staff say? And I wasn't there to
[00:06:54] fix their problem for them if they didn't put in the legwork or if they just were rejected. Right? I'm not there to sort of go around the process that's in place. We had a couple of
[00:07:07] situations where trade associations felt stonewalled by the process a little bit at times and started to run ads against our members and really didn't run things up through the flagpole to up the flagpole to catch our attention in the way that we thought was appropriate.
[00:07:29] And that really made it difficult to work with them over not just that session but moving forward because they sort of broke that trust and again, simply coming and flagging something for us early in the process really would have alleviated that issue.
[00:07:49] And then what did you do when you left the Speaker's Office and how did you make it from Minnesota to Washington, D.C.? Yeah, that's another great question. So I worked for the Speaker until the fall of 2017 when I was approached by a state trade association focused
[00:08:11] on the healthcare industry in Minnesota. Minnesota has a thriving healthcare industry birthplace of medical technology, medical device and really has grown significantly in the payer and provider space. United Health space there, Mayo Clinic space there.
[00:08:32] And so the trade association that approached me to move over there and lead their government affairs department had all of those industries together in one place. And the mission of that organization was to grow the healthcare industry overall in Minnesota and find those places where
[00:08:50] the different industries could connect and work together. And I thought that was a really intriguing mission overall, something that appealed to me finding those commonalities and being able to work, bring the strengths of all the different players together.
[00:09:09] And so I moved over there in November that was 2017 and led that government affairs work. And it was a challenge, probably more so than I really had expected it to be because the different industries while they were united by that common bond of elevating
[00:09:31] and growing the healthcare industry overall, their policy priorities did not always line up. So you had hospitals and payers and pharmaceutical industry and medical technology in one place and sort of sorting through where we could get involved and what that looked like was
[00:09:53] a significant part of my job for most of the time that I was there, especially at the state level. And we really spent a lot of our time focused on tax issues, small business issues,
[00:10:07] growing the startup industry in Minnesota, things like that. So it was a fun job and certainly a place where I learned to be able to manage different interests from different industries and you had to react pretty quickly to do that. But then you were identified by
[00:10:28] Avamet, I think with the connection to that state association. So what did that recruitment out to Washington DC look like to head the state government affairs function for the national trade association? Yeah, so as the leader of government affairs at
[00:10:47] Medical Alley, which was the state trade association, one of my focuses was growing our impact with our congressional delegation as well. And this was during the time when the repeal of the medical device tax was one of the big priorities of industry. And as you can
[00:11:06] imagine in Minnesota was had carried an outsized impact. And so I got to know and work with the team at Avamet during that time period. And as there was a leadership change at Medical Alley,
[00:11:20] I started looking around and saying, okay, well, you know, is there something somewhere where I can have maybe a bigger challenge, something that is more than one state where I can use my skills that I've learned here to bring that growth mindset and impact on a larger scale.
[00:11:45] And just at that time, the government affairs roles at Avamet opened and I reached out to my contacts there and it just it just moved along. And it just happened to be right place,
[00:11:56] right time. And I was very fortunate that, you know, they were willing to take a look at someone who'd only done one state to lead a multi-state effort and started there and really haven't
[00:12:09] looked back since. How do you think you made that case? I've only done this one state, but I can do all 50. Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, really it was the skills that I learned managing a caucus and managing a multi-industry even within healthcare
[00:12:32] trade association is just being able to find where you can make the biggest impact and being able to move quickly and looking for new ways to do things and being able to process that information and bring those groups together to talk. And that's really
[00:12:51] what I highlighted. You know, it didn't hurt of course that I had a lot of medical device experience and industry knowledge of the issues from working in Minnesota, but I think it was
[00:13:00] those skills that I had honed at Medical Alley that helped me stand out despite having only really worked in one state for most of my career or all of it. Big difference between the two jobs.
[00:13:17] Yeah, it really was and you know, I think what's been most interesting to me, you know, or and what was most interesting to me then and continues to be now is, you know, the issues, you know, vary from state to state, right? But, you know, legislators,
[00:13:38] they're not all the same, but you can use those same skills from, you know, one place to another. And it's picking up the little things of the process and, you know, where do you go to staff
[00:13:51] first? Where do you go to the legislators first? Who's non-partisan staff have more influence on the process than others? And, you know, having a sense of, you know, how one state works
[00:14:04] does allow you to say, okay, well that path didn't work here. Let's try this one instead, right? Or and, you know, you can sort of bring those different approaches and have a continual
[00:14:15] font of new ways of trying to tackle a problem. So yeah, it's a big shift from doing one state to 50 states. I'm fortunate to have a good team from the very beginning. But it, you know,
[00:14:29] it's, it's learned skills that you can just put to work the whole time. I think you're also bashful. I think you had a fan club at AdvaMed. They knew you were. I mean, given that it was Minnesota, the medical device birthplace, like you said, the number of members
[00:14:46] there, I mean, you already have profile on the national level. And given the successful track record you had at Medical Alley, it was an easy decision, I think for them. But yeah, fan club was already in DC. Well, yeah, they have made, they made the transition
[00:15:04] easy certainly. And it was nice to have those contacts in place already coming here and not having to start from scratch and, you know, having a sense of who is who already made a big difference.
[00:15:18] So you moved to DC, not at 25, but probably a little bit closer to 40 with a family and young kids. So what does that look like when you move to DC at a different point in your life?
[00:15:32] I think that that's probably a minority percentage than, then, you know, majority most folks are leaving to go have their children back in Minnesota or other states. So how has that transition worked? How have you built like professional network in DC while juggling a new job and
[00:15:52] young children? Just what does the reverse order look like in terms of establishing life in DC as someone a little bit more seasoned and in your other career? Yeah, it certainly has been a challenge.
[00:16:06] You know, I was fortunate that AdvaMed let me work remote for a year before moving out here. And so we had the opportunity to, you know, identify a neighborhood that we wanted to live in, you know, find the schooling choices and daycare choices, which was helpful. You know,
[00:16:23] weren't really just tossed into the fire right away. But certainly building a professional and personal network is, you know, it's moving anywhere new is hard, right? As later in life and you rely a lot on, you know, people that you knew who were here before making those
[00:16:37] contacts for you or, you know, who you are able to meet through your kids is really, uh, again, just like at any other city. But I certainly spent a lot of time reaching out to
[00:16:52] my peers here in DC, right? Others who lead state government affairs departments or who work in state affairs and just having individual meetings with them and building out that network. And I've spent a lot of time doing that and have made a lot of good contacts that way
[00:17:07] and continue just to, you know, sew that network largely through, you know, hopping people, right? Oh, hey, you know this person here and leaning into other organizations too, right? NCSL and others
[00:17:21] where people come through DC and you're able to, you know, catch them when they come through. So, you know, it's certainly work in progress. I've only been here for two and a half years.
[00:17:30] Uh, and, you know, kids are moving schools and adapting to new schedules. But, you know, it's the nice thing about DC is it's very, it can be very transient. And so you end up with a lot of
[00:17:44] people looking to make connections who are here for the first time, even at an older age, though it certainly is less common than they'll run into on Capitol Hill. Um, and Maggie, before you jump into NCSL, can you, Bobby, for those of us that may not be as
[00:18:06] familiar with AdvaMed as Maggie and others are, can you tell us a little bit about your association, the members and some of the challenges you're working on? Absolutely. So, AdvaMed is the MedTech Association. They're the largest association
[00:18:21] representing medical technology innovators and manufacturers. You know, we have more than 500 members right now and cover the entire spectrum of medical technology. So, implantables, imaging, diagnostics, digital health, you know, and everything in between are all represented by
[00:18:42] AdvaMed. And, you know, we work at a global national and state level. And at the state level, I joke with people when I was at the legislature in Minnesota as I was thinking,
[00:18:55] you know, what issues do I want to focus on? The two that I really was like, I want nothing to do with these issues. So I'm just going to, you know, focus elsewhere
[00:19:04] for healthcare and the environment. And as it turns out, those are the two issues that I spend the most time on here at AdvaMed. So, you know, it's, we work a lot on advocating for policies that ensure patients can continue to access medical technology and that ranges from,
[00:19:25] you know, what, how states are looking at what ingredients can be used in different things up to, you know, how technology is regulated, things like AI, right? The use of artificial intelligence in medical technology is probably one of our biggest issues at all levels of government
[00:19:47] right now and certainly one that we're watching closely at the state level and have spent a significant amount of time working on over the last year plus since the first one started
[00:19:58] popping up in early 2023. So, Bobby, before we do the primer on what you have planned for NCSL and I think that folks are really looking forward to walking those halls at the exhibit hall,
[00:20:14] can you just give us a one-on-one on AI in medical devices? I was really surprised to, you know, learn about this getting my briefing, I guess, a few weeks ago on this history.
[00:20:26] Sure. Yeah, AI, you know, as everyone knows really came into the forefront of people's minds in the use of chat GBT and generative AI but in medical technology it's something that has been
[00:20:39] regulated by the FDA since 1994 and the number of AI devices has continued to grow. We did a briefing on the use of AI in medical technology for state governor staff in DC and Hill staff in late 2023 and the number was somewhere around 700. It's now I believe north of 900
[00:21:03] and so this is where we're focusing our education on at the state level that medical technology is one of the only, if not the only industry that has its use of AI heavily regulated already and so to ensure that the patients continue to have access to it,
[00:21:21] states just need to be careful about looking at how it's regulating these devices. Again, I mean the unwanted bias is taken into account already and when the FDA is approving these, these aren't open-ended AI systems, they are closed loop systems and most of them are used
[00:21:40] in the imaging space when doctors are using them to help supplement their work in terms of spotting tumors and things like that. They're helping increase and be able to accurately diagnose patients so again this is where we're focusing our education on with state lawmakers is,
[00:21:57] this is not a new thing in medical technology and we're really excited about what it can do for patients across the country. So when we get to Louisville, what can lawmakers and private sector attendees expect to see on the exhibit hall floor from from Mav Ahmed?
[00:22:15] Yeah, we're really excited about this so you know last year we were able to bring some companies to NCSL to demonstrate their technology and we're able to do the same thing again this year. So
[00:22:27] we've got four member companies that are coming and two of them for sure are going to be, are going to have a demonstration of how AI works in their technology. They're going
[00:22:37] to be able to showcase okay this is the advantage that we are able to help give to patients and how they are diagnosed using our technology. So we would encourage you to come stop by,
[00:22:50] we're very excited to showcase this and it's something that I know that our members who will be there are really excited to talk about, we're really excited to talk about and we're looking forward to showing legislators and really anyone in the government affairs
[00:23:08] community what the power of AI is in MedTech. Awesome, I'm really looking forward to having a ride to Kentucky. Don't have to go far for this meeting thank goodness. Yes, it's a short trip for you for sure so. For the first so I've been thinking about when
[00:23:25] we have a road warrior like you on the on the pod I want to start asking a question. Where were you last and what was the best meal you had and where's your next city
[00:23:39] so that if someone is listening to next week's episode they can send you a restaurant recommendations and make a connection. Yeah that's a great question so last for a professional trip I was
[00:23:55] with you at the Greenbrier in West Virginia and that was my first time at that illustrious resort so that was quite the experience and I think we ate pretty well at that at the resort overall
[00:24:09] so that was definitely solid. I vote the pizza. The pizza was very good yes it was. The Casino Thurrubred restaurant I forgot the name but 12 oaks pizza 12 oaks on Dorset. That crust was really well done. Well thank you Bobby thanks for joining us today and looking
[00:24:34] forward to having you down to Kentucky in a few weeks and I'll let Jim close us out. Well Maggie let's put you on the spot since you put Bobby on the spot we have a lot of people
[00:24:47] listening heading to NCSL. Is there a restaurant or a place that you would recommend that may not be on the NCSL agenda? Well my favorite hotel in Louisville is the Omni which is one of the
[00:25:03] conference hotels so whoever booked there chose well it is actually one of my favorite hotels in America and I'm just lucky enough that it's down the road. It is a fantastic venue
[00:25:14] and property there's a speakeasy there that has bullying alleys in it that I'm sure will be hopping during the conference and then I think the best restaurant there are a number downtown number of them but I think Jeff Ruby's is a beautiful magical dining experience
[00:25:34] fantastic stakes wonderful place to host so I would put that on folks dance dance cards if they are still hungry after the receptions. Well Maggie that sounds sounds like some great
[00:25:48] tips and Bobby thank you so much for coming on the podcast it was nice to meet you and nice to learn more about the association and all that you do. For our listeners out there we hope you have a great week and we will see you next Monday.